On a score of 1-5 stars (5 being the best), how do you rate The Bell Jar?
* Couldn't stand it!
15%
[ 2 ]
**
23%
[ 3 ]
***
30%
[ 4 ]
****
30%
[ 4 ]
***** Loved it
0%
[ 0 ]
Total Votes : 13
Author
Message
Tigerlily Administrator
Joined: 22 Jul 2006 Posts: 7637 Birthday: 7th July
Location: Shropshire
Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 6:27 pm Post subject: This Month's Book Discussion - The Bell Jar
For those of you who have finished reading The Bell Jar, please post your views on the book here. I'll add some discussion questions as soon as I've finished the book. If you have any discussion questions, mail them here - or add them to Sparky's thread, or create your own thread!
Don't forget to vote in the Bell Jar poll. It'll be interesting to see how we score the book as a group.
G
_________________ Reading: Miss Smilla's Feeling for Snow by Peter Hoeg
Reading Challenge 2009: 8
2008: 4
2007: 10
Joined: 22 Jul 2006 Posts: 955 Birthday: 12th December
Location: Paisley, Scotland
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:24 am Post subject: Review of The Bell Jar
That is me finally finished reading The Bell Jar. Is it just me or do find that when you are under pressure to read something it takes you much longer? I thought I would have it read in 2 days, as I normally would for a book that length and found it took me a week! I think that may also be because I wasn’t too keen on the book and wasn’t dying to find out what happened. Anyway here is my review;
Spoiler:
The Bell Jar by Sylvia Plath tells the story of Esther, a young girl who performs well at school, aspires to be a writer and has landed a stint working for a magazine in New York. During this time she starts to suffer mental health problems and has suicidal tendencies. She attempts suicide on a few occasions and is consequently admitted to an asylum where she receives EST (Electric shock therapy), first unsuccessfully and then apparently with more success. The book ends with Esther being interviewed by doctors as to her suitability to leave the asylum, but the reader never finds out the outcome of this interview.
I found this book rather flat, almost boring. The character of Esther does not have sufficient depth to be interesting or aspiring and the reader is left feeling rather indifferent towards her. I think the book would have benefited from a more substantial second character that Esther could have interacted with in order that the reader could understand her more. To me, the book seemed to be skimming the surface of a year in the life of Esther and although it was dealing with her inner thoughts and feelings I still feel that she lacked depth of character.
One interesting point of the book is the image of the bell jar and the description of mental illness as something no-one can see, but is nevertheless suffocating and all-consuming is very enlightening. I think if Plath had tried to express these feelings, and the frustration these feelings must cause, the book would have been more rewarding. Final thought; If Esther had got onto the writing course would the course of events been the same?
I have given this book 2stars out of five in Glynis’s poll and a neutral vote in Mark’s. I am glad I re-read it, but will be putting it on my swap list ASAP! _________________ Currently reading: The Human Stain by Philip Roth
'Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.'
Joined: 22 Jul 2006 Posts: 955 Birthday: 12th December
Location: Paisley, Scotland
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:25 am Post subject:
I would just like to add that I am well chuffed I got that spoiler think to work! _________________ Currently reading: The Human Stain by Philip Roth
'Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.'
Joined: 22 Jul 2006 Posts: 630 Birthday: 6th October
Location: norwich,norfolk
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:52 pm Post subject:
agree wholeheartedly with your opinions Miranda-very eloquently put,better than when I wrote my own opinion in another post-the points you raised were all ones I too share.
lets hope the next choice gives me a little more pause for thought....
Joined: 22 Jul 2006 Posts: 7637 Birthday: 7th July
Location: Shropshire
Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:46 pm Post subject:
Excellent review Miranda. I know what you mean about being pressured to read a book on time - it seems to take longer!
I've finished The Bell Jar! I read the last 100 pages in one sitting; I was so engrossed, I couldn't put the book down. I could actually identify with Esther, but (thankfully) less so towards the end of the book. For example when she mentions her feelings towards maths, chemistry and physics classes, I had to laugh as I felt exactly the same about those subjects (still do). To quote from the book:
Quote:
The day I went into physics class it was death...Then he started talking about let a equal acceleration and let t equal time and suddenly he was scribbling letters and numbers and equals signs all over the blackboard and my mind went dead.
I also enjoyed botany and the only thing I liked about maths was drawing graphs.
Anyway, there were lots of things like that in the book that I could identify with and which made me smile.
I enjoyed Plath's writing style. I'm a sucker for lyrical prose and loved the way she beautifully described scenes, and Esther's thoughts and feelings. Ok the book was depressing and bitter in places, but the fact Plath evoked such a response from me is testament to her powerful writing. I also felt she wrote concisely and to the point and didn't waffle once.
There is more I'd like to say about the book when I'm not so tired, so will no doubt post another message tomorrow. G _________________ Reading: Miss Smilla's Feeling for Snow by Peter Hoeg
Reading Challenge 2009: 8
2008: 4
2007: 10
Joined: 22 Jul 2006 Posts: 7637 Birthday: 7th July
Location: Shropshire
Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:55 pm Post subject: The Bell Jar - Context
Found this useful info about Sylvia Plath and The Bell Jar on www.sparknotes.com:
Spoiler:
Quote:
The Bell Jar is an autobiographical novel that conforms closely to the events of the author’s life. Sylvia Plath was born to Otto and Aurelia Plath in 1932 and spent her early childhood in the seaport town of Winthrop, Massachusetts. Otto Plath died when Plath was eight years old, and she moved with her mother, younger brother, and maternal grandparents to Wellesley, an inland suburb of Boston. Plath excelled in school and developed a strong interest in writing and drawing. In 1950, she won a scholarship to attend Smith College, where she majored in English. The Bell Jar recounts, in slightly fictionalized form, the events of the summer and autumn after Plath’s junior year. Like Esther, the protagonist of The Bell Jar, Plath was invited to serve as guest editor for a woman’s magazine in New York. After returning to Wellesley for the remainder of the summer, she had a nervous breakdown and attempted suicide.
Plath went on to complete a highly successful college career. She won the prestigious Fulbright scholarship to study at Cambridge University in England, where she met the English poet Ted Hughes. They married in 1956, and after a brief stint in the United States, where Plath taught at Smith, they moved back to England in 1959. Plath gave birth to her first child, Freda, the following year. The same year, she published The Colossus, her first volume of poetry. Her second child, Nicholas, was born in 1962. Hughes and Plath separated shortly afterward; her instability and his affair with another woman had placed great strain on their marriage. Plath and her children moved to a flat in London, where she continued to write poetry. The poems she wrote at this time were later published in a collection titled Ariel (1965). In February 1963, she gassed herself in her kitchen, ending her life at the age of thirty-one.
Plath most likely wrote a first draft of The Bell Jar in the late 1950s. In 1961 she received a fellowship that allowed her to complete the novel. The Bell Jar was published in London in January 1963 under the pseudonym Victoria Lucas. Plath chose to publish the work under a pseudonym in order to protect the people she portrayed in the novel, and because she was uncertain of the novel’s literary merit. The novel appeared posthumously in England under her own name in 1966, and in America, over the objections of her mother, in 1971. The Bell Jar has received moderate critical acclaim, and has long been valued not only as a glimpse into the psyche of a major poet, but as a witty and harrowing American coming-of-age story. Plath is primarily known not as a novelist, but as an outstanding poet. Ariel cemented her reputation as a great artist. Her other volumes of poetry, published posthumously, include Crossing the Water (1971), Winter Trees (1971), and The Collected Poems (1981), which won the Pulitzer Prize.
Sylvia Plath’s literary persona has always provoked extreme reactions. Onlookers tend to mythologize Plath either as a feminist martyr or a tragic heroine. The feminist martyr version of her life holds that Plath was driven over the edge by her misogynist husband, and sacrificed on the altar of pre-feminist, repressive 1950s America. The tragic heroine version of her life casts Plath as a talented but doomed young woman, unable to deal with the pressures of society because of her debilitating mental illness. Although neither myth presents a wholly accurate picture, truth exists in both. The Bell Jar does not label its protagonist’s life as either martyred or heroic. Plath does not attribute Esther’s instability to men, society, or Esther herself, although she does criticize all three. Rather, she blames mental illness, which she characterizes as a mysterious and horrific disease.
_________________ Reading: Miss Smilla's Feeling for Snow by Peter Hoeg
Reading Challenge 2009: 8
2008: 4
2007: 10
Joined: 22 Jul 2006 Posts: 630 Birthday: 6th October
Location: norwich,norfolk
Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:58 pm Post subject:
I agree there were some great descriptive passages in the book in fact I think that was the only redeeming feature I could say about it.
but whereas you obviously connected with Esther on a personal level I just so couldn't -partly because I suppose my experiences wth depression have be en slightly diffrent-hough I did understand scarily where she was coming from at times-but also because I couldn't connect with the time frame the book was set in I suppose and felt too much like a passerby peering in through a grubby window -only able to see part of the picture of what is going on inside.
does that make any sense?probably not.
like i have said before i need to feel empathy with the chaRACTERS AND WITH HER I'M SORRY I FELT LESS THAN NOTHING
god my typing is all over the place tonight please excuse my typo's
Joined: 22 Jul 2006 Posts: 7637 Birthday: 7th July
Location: Shropshire
Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 10:19 pm Post subject:
Spoiler:
Quote:
The book ends with Esther being interviewed by doctors as to her suitability to leave the asylum, but the reader never finds out the outcome of this interview
Just out of interest, on page 3 of the book Esther talks about the freebies she received during her time in New York and mentions "a white plastic sun-glasses case with coloured shells and sequins and a green plastic starfish sewed on to it."
She goes on to say:
Quote:
For a long time afterwards I hid them away, but later, when I was all right again, I brought them out, and I still have them around the house. I use the lipsticks now and then, and last week I cut the plastic starfish off the sun-glasses case for the baby to play with.
This implies she did leave the asylum and felt better (even though she knew the bell jar could descend again). Perhaps went on to have a baby, as did Plath, although it's not clear if Esther's referring to her own child. I held onto this positive note whilst reading about her time in the asylum as I wanted her to get well again.
_________________ Reading: Miss Smilla's Feeling for Snow by Peter Hoeg
Reading Challenge 2009: 8
2008: 4
2007: 10
Joined: 22 Jul 2006 Posts: 7637 Birthday: 7th July
Location: Shropshire
Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 10:54 pm Post subject:
I only connected with Esther in certain parts of the book Sparky. I didn't relate to Esther towards the latter part of the book
Spoiler:
where feelings of unreality took hold of her. And yet I found her time in the asylum/bell jar more fascinating than her time in New York when her illness had started to manifest itself. I found a lot of the New York part of the book boring. It only really picked up for me after the Marco incident and when she returned to her mother's. I really wanted her to leave home - I could almost feel the suffocating effects of the bell jar myself. I felt relief when the book ended, or, rather when the bell jar started to lift. The bell jar symbol is very clever and evocative. I also liked the fig tree symbol. I can relate to deciding which career path to choose. Like Esther, at that age I often couldn't make up my mind what to study at degree level as I loved too many subjects to be committed to one. They were all arts related too and not the realistic career choices that provide a secure income. I envy people who know which career path to take. I know lots of arts graduates who took unfulfilling office jobs to pay the bills. Like Esther I refuse to get married and I've often found being a full-time mum boring. I can imagine it was very difficult to admit that in 1950s America. At least in today's society, I can almost get away with saying that! Anyway, I digress!
. _________________ Reading: Miss Smilla's Feeling for Snow by Peter Hoeg
Reading Challenge 2009: 8
2008: 4
2007: 10
Joined: 22 Jul 2006 Posts: 955 Birthday: 12th December
Location: Paisley, Scotland
Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:39 am Post subject: More thoughts
Hi Guys
Good to see we have some discussion going!
Spoiler:
I also liked the image of the fig tree, I found choosing a career very difficult and have only just qualified as a teacher (i am 2 and i'm still not 100% sure that it is what i want to do, but like Esther I knew if I didn't choose something soon i would waste my time and my options would start to dwindle. However, these days a career isn't forever I can see myself re-training at say 40 or 45 if i'm not happy teaching. I also liked the image of the bell jar, as i already mentioned. I think Plath could have furthered these images and used them more in the book to give a richer novel.
i did relate to Esther a bit, because when she is on the magazine she has everything going for her, yet she feels empty. Sometimes even though everything is going right, and people looking at your life would think it is great there is still a sense that something is missing. This can make you feel really guilty and ungrateful as you can always imagine someone worse off than you - yet these feelings exist. I think it is just nature's way of making us want to strive forward and not rest on our laurels. So it was nice to see these thoughts portrayed through Esther.
I think Plath is talented and I enjoy her poetry, however I get the sense that in The Bell Jar she lacked the confidence to truly utilise her talent. I also find her work quite self-orientated which can become a bit tedious after a while (ouch!).
_________________ Currently reading: The Human Stain by Philip Roth
'Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.'
Joined: 22 Jul 2006 Posts: 7637 Birthday: 7th July
Location: Shropshire
Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 12:42 pm Post subject:
I agree with everything you said Miranda. This is the first of Sylvia Plath's work I've read and I think I'll have a look at her poetry. I thought The Bell Jar was interesting, but it didn't totally blow me away, so to speak. I gave it 4/5 stars.
Another thing - because she wrote the book from Esther's subjective viewpoint, it makes me want to know her mother's, her friends', Buddy's version of events. I suppose Esther is an unreliable narrator and because she was so wrapped up in herself, there are a lot of loose ends. We only get Esther's impression of the other characters in the book. I'd love to read the story from the perspective of a detached, all-present narrator and compare it to Esther's account. I felt like this after reading We Need To Talk About Kevin as Kevin's mother Eva is a very unreliable narrator. I quite like all the loose ends though - keeps me thinking after I've finished the book! _________________ Reading: Miss Smilla's Feeling for Snow by Peter Hoeg
Reading Challenge 2009: 8
2008: 4
2007: 10
I jotted down a few thoughts on this on Saturday and have eventually got round to posting them I've classed it all as a spoiler as I am too tired to sift through it all....
Spoiler:
I started this not knowing much about Sylvia Plath apart from her relationship with Ted Hughes and that she committed suicide in the 60s. I probably expected The Bell Jar to be much darker but would admit to being pleasantly surprised - gave it 4 out of 5.
As an account of an individual's descent into depression and mental illness, it's perhaps a lot more subtle than our modern "confessional" tales. This could stem from the novel being written in the first person, a narrator whose increasingly depressive state is the cause of introspection and paranoia. We get very little insight into the other characters and this can be frustrating but it's symptomatic of Esther's own self-absorption and inability to form relationships. I didn't find her a likeable character but I don't think we're meant to.
I thought it was beautifully written and you have to deliberately slow down your reading in the more lyrical, poetic parts . I loved the image of the fig tree representing the vast number of career paths open to her, yet she felt frozen, unable to choose. I can empahtize with that! The stifling image of the bell jar and also her suicide attempt when she was holed up in the basement all added to the feeling of suffocation throughout the novel.
Esther seems very confused about sexuality - one minute decrying Buddy for having slept with the waitress and the next, being in total awe of the "sophisticated" Doreen who seems to enjoy sexual freedom. She sees the world divided into those who are virgins and those who are not - reflecting the oppressiveness of the 50s perhaps. Sex also seems to be inextricably linked with violence - Doreen and Lenny's rather rough foreplay and the woman hater Marco and the encounter with Irwin was not exactly pleasurable.
Perhaps this is a forerunner of the "confessional" novel as I've since discovered it parallels events in Plath's own life - it was originally written under a pseudonym as Plath was anxioust that it wouldn't be viewed as serious literature. Like Esther, she seemed to fear failure and constantly worried about people's expectations of her.
As a stand-alone work of fiction, I can understand how some readers would come away from the Bell Jar feeling dissatified but I'm glad I was given the opportunity to read it and would view it as an introduction to Plath and would be interested in reading some of her poetry. Since the novel ends on a hopeful note, I wonder what later events caused her to commit suicide. Perhaps she felt she never really fitted in.
Joined: 22 Jul 2006 Posts: 7637 Birthday: 7th July
Location: Shropshire
Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 8:56 pm Post subject:
Wow I'm really impressed with your review Treez. And with Miranda's too. Well written and you pointed out a couple of things that I hadn't really thought of, Treez. I feel I should go away and write something as well!
Actually I have thought of something:
Spoiler:
I thought Esther's mother was an interesting character, particularly as we get to know her only through Esther's eyes. Reading between the lines I can imagine that Mrs Greenwood was worried sick about her daughter and did care for her. I can understand that perhaps she doesn't understand Esther or try to (maybe because the accepted norm for young women in middle class 1950s America was to get a secretarial type job and/or become a submissive wife and mother?). She doesn't seem to attempt to ask Esther what makes her happy and what career she really wants to pursue. It's as if she doesn't take her degree seriously, as if it's a phase her daughter will grow out of. Also when Esther is ill, her mother doesn't really believe her. There's a fantastic quote to illustrate this, and I can only imagine that her mother's comment made Esther feel even more suffocated and unsupported:
Quote:
"I'm through with that Doctor Gordon," I said, after we had left Dodo and her black wagon behind the pines. "You can call him up and tell him I'm not coming next week." My mother smiled. "I knew my baby wasn't like that." I looked at her. "Like what?" "Like those awful people. Those awful dead people at that hospital. " She paused. "I knew you'd decide to be all right again."
How awful is that? I can understand Mrs Greenwood's denial of her daughter's illness because she loves her daughter (what parent would want their child to suffer depression?) and also because she doesn't understand the nature of the illness. I can just see her nagging Esther to sort herself out. I bet Esther felt undermined and condescended to. Like she's a child who needs to be shown a lesson in order to pull herself together. As if Esther is playing at being depressed like a spoilt child. I felt sorry for Esther here. And when she received the first shock treatment that made her wonder "what terrible thing it was I had done", well that sentence tugged at my heartstrings.
When Mrs Greenwood is at the hospital wringing her hands, I wonder if she is worried about her daughter's health but also concerned about how it will look to others.
I've waffled on enough now! I could go on and on _________________ Reading: Miss Smilla's Feeling for Snow by Peter Hoeg
Reading Challenge 2009: 8
2008: 4
2007: 10
Yes, the bit where the mother said I'd knew you'd decide to be all right again struck a chord with me but I think there are still a lot of people around today who view depression the same way and see it as something to hide - a social stigma.
Joined: 22 Jul 2006 Posts: 630 Birthday: 6th October
Location: norwich,norfolk
Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:42 pm Post subject:
isn't that because those of us who have any experience of it feel reluctant to share because it is a sign of weakness to admit you cannot always cope-or is that more a man thing.
i don't readily admit i have had problems in past with depression to real people(no offence to my online friends) and only bring it up when people notice scars on my arm(thankfully mostly faded now)that i have from putting cigarettes out on myself when i was depressed and when i do mention it ,it is reluctantly.
Thankfully those days are behind me mostly but i still get anxiety atttacks sometimes and get very stressed when life gets a bit hard but don't like admitting there is anything wrong even to wife though she guesses and is often strong for me at these times without telling me she knows......
I don't think not admitting things is just a man thing, Sparky. I have suffered from mild depression in the past and when I finally said to my mother-in-law, you can stop telling people I've got the flu, just tell them I've had a bout of depression - well, she wanted the floor to swallow her up and just blanked me and went on to talk about flower arranging! It makes me laugh now but at the time I could have stuffed a bunch of daffs where the sun don't shine!
Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 148 Birthday: 18th February
Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 6:15 pm Post subject:
Enjoyed the book, as like a lot of the people on here, I could relate to Esther and her illness. I particularly related to when she wanted to be everything in her future and be perfect at it, as I have always spent a lot of time worrying about what I should be or do and when I do decide I then worry about being the best at it.
Most of my other comments have been covered above by other people, but one part that I just can't work out and hope someone can answer me is:
Spoiler:
the part after Esther had sex with Irwin and then was bleeding profusely afterwards - What was wrong with her? - The Doctor says " It's one in a million it happens to like this" I don't have a clue what he is talking about - can anyone help?
Other than that I actually enjoyed it and thank you for choosing it as I would never have dreamed of reading this book. _________________
Joined: 22 Jul 2006 Posts: 7637 Birthday: 7th July
Location: Shropshire
Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 8:46 pm Post subject:
Spoiler:
You're right Saucy, it wasn't explained in the novel at all. I think she haemorrhaged which must be a rare occurance. I think it's been mentioned already on here, but a lot of Esther's experiences in the novel (not just in relation to sex) are pretty violent &/or negative - Lenny & Doreen's mock-aggressive foreplay; the food poisoning incident; haemorraghing after losing her virginity; Jay-Cee's critical comments; Buddy's insensitive comments (idiot - I'm glad she ditched him!! ); the date with Marco (even more of an idiot - I'm glad she lamped him! ); her relationship with her mother etc. etc. Of course these all lead to Esther's breakdown and suicide attempts. And that's not to mention which career path to take. I've been there myself - wondering which college/uni course to take cos I wanted to do them all. I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up!
_________________ Reading: Miss Smilla's Feeling for Snow by Peter Hoeg
Reading Challenge 2009: 8
2008: 4
2007: 10
Joined: 24 Jul 2006 Posts: 180 Birthday: 20th April
Location: Middlesex
Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 8:56 pm Post subject:
I finished The Bell jar weeks ago & at first because I knew nothing about the book I read it as a fictional novel & wasn't very impressed. I agree with the previous comments that the style was flat & DULL. However after researching the book I looked at it in a completely different light seeing it as the semoi-autobiographical story that it is & was then more impressed. I felt it was a very accurate account of clinical depression based on my own experiences & her mother's attitude I found typical !! even by comparison to my own family.
Now I regard it as a classic & accurate account of the illness & how awful to have undergone ECT. I would love to read more about her life & why she later committed suicide. Does anyone have any recommendations for a good biography?? I've got a copy of her poetry book Ariel & although I've only dipped into it it is beautiful. Ta, amarie
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