On a score of 1-5 stars (5 being the best), how do you rate We Need To Talk About Kevin?
* Couldn't stand it!
9%
[ 2 ]
**
0%
[ 0 ]
***
13%
[ 3 ]
****
9%
[ 2 ]
***** Loved it!
50%
[ 11 ]
Gave up on it (explain why below)
9%
[ 2 ]
Didn't read this one
9%
[ 2 ]
Total Votes : 22
Author
Message
amarie Busy babbling when should be reading
Joined: 24 Jul 2006 Posts: 180 Birthday: 20th April
Location: Middlesex
Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:16 am Post subject:
OK..... last comment from me I've written far too much already
Spoiler:
I read this book from Eva's point of view (obviously) but I've never doubted it. I've also never doubted Kevin's role in Celia's eye incident/accident, he was terribly jealous of her after all. I read this book hoping at the end of it I would have an answer to what was wrong with Kevin & I really hoped I'd read a psychiatric profile which would explain it all & then I'd feel alot better. They were no answers except that the American Dream doesn't work (& I'm glad I don't live there) & we can't all believe that life is happy ever after ( which I feel was Franklin's flaw). I still think that as a father Franklin was lacking. He quite happily went out to work & left his wife at home with a difficult child. He wanted to play happy families all the time & never saw any problems with Kevin which even with a "normal" kid isn't right. Was he fooling himself on purpose or was he really soooo naive?? I really don't get him & if I was Eva would have balled him out a hundred times over
Finally the sad ending is that after all, Kevin loves his mother & to me that was the greatest shock of all.
I think the longer I sit back and try to make a structured, processed view of my opinions of this book form a point on this thread I find I don't know what to say. I don't really know where to start!
Spoiler:
As someone who desperately longs to have a child, I found myself thinking that Eva should never have had Kevin if she wasn't sure about having a child. In the nasty part of my mind I was thinking'you should have shown him more affection as a child, you should never have gone back to work with the kind of work you do where you travel for ridiculously long periods, you should never have had Celia as some sort of experiment to try and prove to Franklin that Kevin was not a 'normal child' '.
If her concerns were so big, why did she not seek help and advice from elsewhere?
Franklin irritated me with his outlook on Kevin as being the child who could do no wrong, and also the lack of support he showed Eva throughout. I almost felt that once she had Kevin, she was disregarded and Kevin was the only person who was important in Franklins life.
Hmmm...I'll come back when I have thought more about what I want to say. _________________ Katey
xxx
Joined: 29 Jul 2006 Posts: 4137 Birthday: 12th December
Location: Cumbria
Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 6:15 pm Post subject:
I have just finished 'Kevin' after a marathon reading session this afternoon. Will write a review in a day or two. It wasn't the best book I have read but the last two or three chapters made me glad I had stuck with it.
Joined: 22 Jul 2006 Posts: 7637 Birthday: 7th July
Location: Shropshire
Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 6:43 pm Post subject:
Spoiler:
Quote:
OK..... last comment from me I've written far too much already
I read this book from Eva's point of view (obviously) but I've never doubted it. I've also never doubted Kevin's role in Celia's eye incident/accident, he was terribly jealous of her after all. I read this book hoping at the end of it I would have an answer to what was wrong with Kevin & I really hoped I'd read a psychiatric profile which would explain it all & then I'd feel alot better. They were no answers except that the American Dream doesn't work (& I'm glad I don't live there) & we can't all believe that life is happy ever after ( which I feel was Franklin's flaw). I still think that as a father Franklin was lacking. He quite happily went out to work & left his wife at home with a difficult child. He wanted to play happy families all the time & never saw any problems with Kevin which even with a "normal" kid isn't right. Was he fooling himself on purpose or was he really soooo naive?? I really don't get him & if I was Eva would have balled him out a hundred times over
Finally the sad ending is that after all, Kevin loves his mother & to me that was the greatest shock of all.
Hmmmm It's interesting what you say about the book amarie I personally thought kevin was a pretty normal kid who just wasn't loved enough by Eva. She didn't really want kids and resented him from the start. I felt she was awkward around him and he sensed it. All his life, he was looking for her approval and acceptance. That's what I felt anyway. And from this, Kevin started to see any kind of attention from his mum as good. Even bad attention. And he got into a pattern of winding Eva up cos that was all he knew.
How do we know for sure that Kevin was a difficult child? Eva wrote her letters in the aftermath of Thursday so her view is biased and she's therefore an unreliable narrator. She may have painted the picture of Kevin as she did to reassure herself it wasn't all her fault. He obviously was a difficult kid in the end - shows what could happen when you don't feel loved. I don't blame Franklin for wanting to live the dream, but he and Eva together were annoying as they were never united in disciplining Kevin, so Kevin ended up playing them off one another.
I also don't know if Kevin was responsible for Celia's eye. It's written in a way that we'll never be sure.
I listened to an interview with Lionel Shriver (I borrowed the audio book from the library) and, if I remember rightly, she didn't know herself if Kevin was responsible!!
I still can't help but feel that Eva is a seriously flawed character/narrator and just can't take her word for a lot of things. I'd love to hear the story from an omniscient narrator so I could find out what really went on! But that's the charm of the book - we'll never know. I just get the impression that Kevin is an example of what could happen to someone who doesn't have enough love in their life. I don't think he ever felt loved by Eva. And she didn't know if she loved him herself until that last page of the book. How sad she realised that she did when it was too late.
_________________ Reading: Miss Smilla's Feeling for Snow by Peter Hoeg
Reading Challenge 2009: 8
2008: 4
2007: 10
Joined: 22 Jul 2006 Posts: 7637 Birthday: 7th July
Location: Shropshire
Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 6:52 pm Post subject:
Just read your post Katey and agree with you.
Spoiler:
Eva was used to a travelling lifestyle and having a baby would cramp that lifestyle for a few years at least!! I could understand her feeling trapped, but also thought it was a bit selfish taking off for a few months, leaving Kevin behind when he needed his mum. I also thought it bizarre that she resented not being able to drink alcohol when she was pregnant. It's only for a few months. She just didn't show him enough love. Kids thrive on love, cuddles, and I find it difficult to believe Kevin was born a difficult child and wouldn't respond to love. So in that respect, this book didn't put me off parenthood (having more kids at least).
_________________ Reading: Miss Smilla's Feeling for Snow by Peter Hoeg
Reading Challenge 2009: 8
2008: 4
2007: 10
Last edited by Tigerlily on Fri Nov 24, 2006 10:31 am; edited 1 time in total
I think the longer I sit back and try to make a structured, processed view of my opinions of this book form a point on this thread I find I don't know what to say. I don't really know where to start!
As someone who desperately longs to have a child, I found myself thinking that Eva should never have had Kevin if she wasn't sure about having a child. In the nasty part of my mind I was thinking'you should have shown him more affection as a child, you should never have gone back to work with the kind of work you do where you travel for ridiculously long periods, you should never have had Celia as some sort of experiment to try and prove to Franklin that Kevin was not a 'normal child' '.
If her concerns were so big, why did she not seek help and advice from elsewhere?
Franklin irritated me with his outlook on Kevin as being the child who could do no wrong, and also the lack of support he showed Eva throughout. I almost felt that once she had Kevin, she was disregarded and Kevin was the only person who was important in Franklins life.
Hmmm...I'll come back when I have thought more about what I want to say.
Katey you have just summed up how I feel, I haven't really been able to comment on this book so far I just didn't know where to begin! _________________ Currently reading On Beauty by Zadie Smith
Joined: 24 Jul 2006 Posts: 180 Birthday: 20th April
Location: Middlesex
Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 7:36 pm Post subject:
Spoiler:
katey wrote:
--- should never have had Celia as some sort of experiment to try and prove to Franklin that Kevin was not a 'normal child' '.
I never thought of Celia as an experiment, I thought Eva at that time in her life for the first time-really wanted a child. Especially a child she could love as everything with Kevin had gone so wrong.
BTW don't let this book put you off having children. There are probably millions of children today who grow up without parental love- victims of war/famine/children in orphanges/child abuse etc.. they don't all turn out to be murderers. In a lot of ways I think this book was flawed surely any middle class parents like Eva & Franklin would have sought help & IMO Eva was a good mother & Franklin was at fault a lot. BTW the author of this book was not a mother. I would love to see how different this book would have been if she had a child of her own.
Joined: 22 Jul 2006 Posts: 7637 Birthday: 7th July
Location: Shropshire
Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 10:57 am Post subject:
Spoiler:
everyone seems to be having a pop at Franklin! Okay, so Kevin calls him a 'phony' Dad, but does Kevin ever seem to tell his Dad that he'd prefer to do something other than play frisbee in the yard, for example? Franklin came across as wanting to be the perfect Dad, and he was really enthusiastic about Kevin's upbringing - but was he reliving his own childhood through Kevin? Doing the things HE wanted to do, rather than what Kevin wanted to do? Maybe Franklin was too blinkered to see Kevin wasn't enjoying their time together and the activities/experiences he introduced to (or pushed upon?) Kevin. Eva described Kevin standing dumbly whilst Franklin enthusiastically played Dad. Perhaps Kevin should have said, look I'd rather do something else. Perhaps Franklin should have seen Kevin was bored and asked him what he'd rather do. Maybe he honestly thought he was doing all the right things without realising he wasn't really communicating with his son, and vice versa.
Franklin did annoy me whenever Eva wanted to discipline Kevin and he would say, leave him alone...in front of the boy too. Totally undermining Eva, not listening to her and giving Kevin the opportunity to play his parents against one another.
Hmmm Hmmm
And with regards to Eva being a good mother...I'm not saying the blame lies with her, that's not fair, no one's a perfect parent. And Kevin was old enough to make his own decisions by the time he was 16. But have to say, I respect that she needed space from time to time, but as a parent myself, I'd never leave Charis and Tim for 4 odd months to work away - especially if we were already okay financially. I just feel Eva & Kevin never bonded. And it's like they had to go through those awful events to finally understand that yes, they do love one another.
_________________ Reading: Miss Smilla's Feeling for Snow by Peter Hoeg
Reading Challenge 2009: 8
2008: 4
2007: 10
Last edited by Tigerlily on Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:02 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 22 Jul 2006 Posts: 955 Birthday: 12th December
Location: Paisley, Scotland
Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 6:27 pm Post subject:
Just to let you all know I am still plugging away at this - I am about half way. I kinda have mixed feelings so far - at first the style was kinda hard to get into, but after the first 50 pages or so I was quite used to it - think it is improving my vocabulary no end. Now, about 200 pages in I find I am getting a bit bored with it.
Spoiler:
It seems like it isn't going anywhere, but from what everyone is saying about the last few chapters I assume it is going somewhere.
Was going to say more, but I am going to see the Bond film so will come back later! _________________ Currently reading: The Human Stain by Philip Roth
'Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.'
Joined: 29 Jul 2006 Posts: 4137 Birthday: 12th December
Location: Cumbria
Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 7:05 pm Post subject:
Wasn't to keen on this when I stared and got a bit bored in the middle but ended up pleased I had read to the end. Only gave it four stars.
Spoiler:
I don’t blame Eva for the way Kevin turned out. In fact I think she was the only person that he had any respect for. She tended not to hide how she felt about Kevin from the start and kids tend to prefer honesty. Eva and Kevin had a lot in common if they had only realized it. Franklin was to desperate to be loved by Kevin and went out of his way to ‘understand’ him. Kevin just didn’t respond to this type of parenting. I do find it had to believe that neither Kevin’s parents or the school thought his behaviour was bizarre enough to seek help. Teachers tend to look out for any unusual behaviour and can offer to get the child some appropriate help. I think Eva suffered badly from post natal depression which also seem to go virtual untreated. I couldn’t get to grips with the relationship between Franklin and Eva. There had nothing in common and couldn’t even present a united front when it came to their children. Surely all the parenting books that Franklin read stressed how important this was. The ending was shocking but I don’t see anything in either parents behaviour that would have caused this. A awful lot of children in the world have far worse parents and are brought up in appalling conditions without turning into a killer.
I think I have 'Talked about Kevin' at practically every book club I know. It certainly gives plenty of food for thought.
Many members joining in the discussion on BookGroupOnline found the 'unreliable narrator' annoying, but I was fascinated by this, as I saw it as Eva's way of dealing with her feelings of guilt (and aren't feelings of maternal guilt an inevitable consequence of rearing a child?). The blame seems sometimes weighted in one direction, and sometimes in another.
I found the best 'explanation' for Kevin on another site, where someone said that Eva's account of Kevin's infancy seemed to indicate that she had been suffering, at the least post-natal depression, and probably puerpal psychosis. I don't think they have Health Visitors in the USA, so there was no chance of it being picked up.
I see that you haven't discussed the end of the book...No, not that chapter! - the final visit we see Eva making to Kevin in the young person's detention centre place, his 'gift' to her, her preparation of the bedroom etc. There's still plenty to think about right to the end!
I did try and read this last year but couldn't stand it and gave up I'm afraid. _________________ Swap List: http://tinyurl.com/33pg6r
Currently Reading "Switchcraft" by Lowri Turner
I only read this last month and must say I really enjoyed it. I thought the writing was excellent and it certainly provided lots to think and talk about... !
Joined: 10 Oct 2007 Posts: 538 Birthday: 12th November
Location: In the Land of Pies and Piers
Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:19 am Post subject: Kevin
I'm afraid that I gave up on Kevin on my first attempt....I swapped my copy on RISI and then felt that I didn't try hard enough to like it ...so, a few weeks ago I managed to get another copy and shall 'try' it again...not sure what I will make of it at a second attempt ...LOL...
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