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This month's book choice - Never Let Me Go - Kazuo Ishiguro
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On a score of 1-5 stars (5 being the best), how do you rate Never let Me Go?
* Couldn't stand it!
6%
 6%  [ 1 ]
**
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
***
31%
 31%  [ 5 ]
****
37%
 37%  [ 6 ]
***** Loved it!
25%
 25%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 16

Author Message
Saucy
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lovely treez wrote:
Saucy wrote:


Absolute sense - I am ashamed of my lack of knowledge particularly as my partner works the sidelines of the cloning industry.


Interesting. Could he find me a Johnny Depp clone?


Get in line - have you not seen my avatar on RISI forum?????



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aha, Saucy! So he's working on in secret.... won't tell a soul!
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oooh Oooh just finished the book and will contribute to the discussion tomorrow. My head is bursting with thoughts! Amazing book for discussion. Not a 'great' book though. I scored it 4. Great choice Zan - I probably wouldn't have looked at it if it hadn't have been on here. I wouldn't mind reading some of his other books, Remains of the Day perhaps.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok here's my review of the book:

Spoiler:

I started Never Let Me Go without knowing what it was about. I soon cottoned on that I wasn't reading about society as we're familiar with it, that it was alternative society. 1990s I guessed. One of the first things that struck me when I learned the characters were clones, is that they don't have surnames - names suggest bloodlines, family history, identity (ok not everyone is proud of their heritage, but you get my gist!).

This isn't a sci-fi novel set in a futuristic Britain either. It's set in the world we're already part of and familiar with, where cloning practices are the norm. That makes the idea more scary, that it could be in the here and now, not some future we can easily detach ourselves from. The author ensures we're involved with the characters by making us part of their world. Kathy talks to us, often as if we're also clones. I found this clever: Ishiguro didn't use a detached narrator who provided all the scientific facts. He assumes we already know about such cloning practices so doesn't need to explain all the details. But as a result, we DO want to know and it keeps us reading, in the hope some of the mystery will be unravelled. (I love first person narrators who are often unreliable. Leaves loads of loose ends to discuss!).

The story's also told from a very human perspective - these clones being farmed are humans with feelings after all - so you can't help empathising with the characters, their emotions etc. It made me compare my existence to theirs. Placing the book in a wider context, whilst I appreciate we have free will, we will all die too, so our lives could be seen as predetermined too. Almost like a reminder that we die - maybe not all as prematurely as the clones. Memento Mori.

Then I started thinking whilst it's shocking to imagine a world where clones are the norm, there are millions of people in the world who live worse lives. People in third world countries for e.g. often as a result of our (western society's) greed. Yet we seem to accept this. (I know the novel hints that clones in less privileged institutions than Hailsham lived in awful conditions, but still it could be argued they never had money worries and had a roof over their heads).

I wondered why the characters in the novel didn't try to escape, but it soon became obvious they wouldn't know how to. They're not taught how their world works, let alone be fully integrated into 'normal' society. So they cling to one another, to what they know, to where they belong, where they feel safe. They've been brainwashed after all and deprived of tons of knowledge during their upbringing at Hailsham. I could imagine they felt beneath ordinary people, so daren't try to cause any fuss about their fates. It was as if they were resigned to their futures. I thought Sparky made an interesting point - that they probably weren't educated about people such as MLK so maybe didn't know you could overthrow a system.

Still I wondered if their lives were so awful to them, did any commit suicide, or have suicidal thoughts, or know that they could??! Did any try to befriend ordinary humans? Did any run away or go awol? Ishiguro didn't imply this so I imagine not. There's no hope in the novel. They're so used to being controlled, they don't know any other way than to follow like cattle to the slaughter. maybe that's not entirely true as Kathy and Tommy did try to defer, but you could sense they knew their efforts were futile.

A very thought-provoking book. Easy to read the natural conversational style and tone. I felt claustraphobic at the end when you knew that Tommy and Kathy had no future. They may be clones, but they have souls, spirits - and being treated like this was so sad. The word 'complete' was cold too.

Just had a thought - maybe they didn't try to escape their fates because, if it is a tale about the human condition, then they couldn't - in the same way we can't escape our own deaths. Imagine the story as a warped mirror image of our own world.

I've waffled on enough. No doubt will be back when I've remembered something else about the novel!


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShropshireBlue wrote:
Ok here's my review of the book:

Spoiler:


Just had a thought - maybe they didn't try to escape their fates because, if it is a tale about the human condition, then they couldn't - in the same way we can't escape our own deaths. Imagine the story as a warped mirror image of our own world.



I think that's the crux of the matter, Glynis! They are very aware of their purpose and their "completion" and accept it while we humans rush about trying any means to postpone our "completions" or immortalise ourselves in some way - some people want to have children to leave their mark on the world!
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I meant to add - they put off thinking about having to donate and their inevitable completion, just as we put off thinking about the future: getting old, losing ppl we love, writing wills, sorting pensions. We're no different. We accept that death is our eventual fate and defer it all we might, we can't escape from it. We don't talk about it, calling ourselves morbid. we're resigned to it happening and say we'll cross the bridge when we come to it.


aaaah it's all finally clicked into place.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm so glad this has been a 'discussable' book!
It's been so long since I did anything like this - I'm glad I did not choose a Complete Turkey....lol

Zan
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thought this was an excellent choice zan-very enjoyable and thought-provoking
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was a great choice Zan as people could extract many different things from it and still not be wrong. I know that some people think that, once the "secret" is out about why the children are there, the book's finished but that wasn't really important to me and this is one (of the rare ones!) I'm going to keep on my shelf and is DEFINITELY NOT UP FOR SWAPPING because I want to re-read it. I can't remember that last time I've wanted to re-read something apart from some of the classics I hadn't revisited since childhood. Thanks again, Zan.
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Saucy
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lovely treez wrote:
It was a great choice Zan as people could extract many different things from it and still not be wrong. I know that some people think that, once the "secret" is out about why the children are there, the book's finished but that wasn't really important to me and this is one (of the rare ones!) I'm going to keep on my shelf and is DEFINITELY NOT UP FOR SWAPPING because I want to re-read it. I can't remember that last time I've wanted to re-read something apart from some of the classics I hadn't revisited since childhood. Thanks again, Zan.


I am the same and was a bit gutted that I had a library book as I thought it was a keeper - but didn't think the library would have been happy lol
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a personal level, I'm still trying to decide whether to keep the book or not. Just can't put my finger on why I didn't think it a 'great' novel. Don't think it's because of the bleakness of the story as many of my fave books are quite depressing, but they have that special quality about them that makes them great. I actually think it was the writing style. I sometimes got bored of feeling like I was reading someone's diary. I know it was important for us to 'listen' to the narrator's account from her point of view, and I know it wasn't a diary. It read too easily - bet I'm not making any sense! - and I'm a sucker for a piece of writing that really stands out as literary. (I especially love lyrical prose).

So whilst it was easy to read, each time I'd put it down, it took me ages before I was looking forward to reading the next instalment. Do you know what I mean? it was Part 3 with 85 pages to go when I started to really think & care about the characters.

But as a group read, it was a superb book to discuss. Excellent choice Zan!

It's also listed in the 1001 Books To Read Before You Die book.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spoiler:

i still think it was very similar to teaching animals to read and write -educating them so that they have some knowledge that they are going to end up eventually on someones plate!!this is the most poignant book i have read for a while and cant imagine wanting to get rid of it-it really touched an interesting part of my soul and has left me with so many ethical and moral questions about the way i and our modern society live our lives....and the way our future is going....

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just found the review of Never Let Me Go in 1001 Books To Read Before You Die:

Spoiler:

Quote:
Never Let Me Go begins from a startling premise. In the English countryside, a number of special institutions have been secretly set up in the later 20th century to raise and educate young people whose destiny, unsuspected during the innocent years of childhood, is to be sacrificed for the collective good. As in his previous 2 novels, Ishiguro disorients the reader by combining realism of psychology and setting with growing implausibility of event. It seems at first that this is a clumsy science fiction story, meant perhaps to promote debate about the ethics of cloning. The matter-of-fact prose offers few immediate stylistic pleasures, and the novel has no dramatic twists, no tales of escape, recapture, or redemption. By the time we finish it, however, it has cast an unsettling and unforgettable illumination on the world we thought we knew. This is a dreamlike parable, rather than a schematic allegory. Its compelling narrative metaphors make us think in new ways about mortality, individuality, and social democracy. As ever with Ishiguro, the elements of the puzzles refer not inward, to the riddles of the closed text, but outward. The book's questions are about the life we lead. What is the purpose of fostering the creative imagination of beings whose fate it is to live for a while and then die? What kind of world is it in which not even the evidence of lifelong love can defer what awaits the lovers?


Quote:
The book's questions are about the life we lead. What is the purpose of fostering the creative imagination of beings whose fate it is to live for a while and then die?


At the end of the novel, when Tommy suggested to Kathy that she should give up the caring to become a donor, he said it in a way as if to say, 'you may as well, cos what else is there to live for?'. It gave me the impression that Tommy embraced death and wasn't afraid of acknowledging it. Or perhaps saw life as futile; we're not here for any special reason, etc.

I can see what Miss Lucy meant by telling him it's not important to be good at art when, 'What is the purpose of fostering the creative imagination of beings whose fate it is to live for a while and then die?'.

But then she later changed her mind and said it was important.

An interesting existential novel that really got me thinking (about stuff I didn't want to have to think about either! ). However, whilst I know one day I'll pop my clogs, I still prefer to live life to the full. No point being bored waiting for my number to come up!!

Carpe Diem I say


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been meaning to post this but kept forgetting!
Spoiler:

You know when Kathy has a go at Ruth in the cottages for mimicking gestures from TV sitcoms and saying that's not how people operate in the real world? Thought this was ironic cos haven't we all done it at some point in our lives? Much of popular culture is learned through the media. An example being Waaaaasssssuuup - I remember loads of kids & adults using that one



A small point, I know, but I feel better now I've mentioned it!!
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know when you finish a book and you decide there and then it wasn't a 'great' read but you enjoyed it or found it thought-provoking?

Well, I'd like to say I'm still thinking about Never Let Me Go now, nearly two years on and am glad I kept my copy of the book. I wish I hadn't said it wasn't great, because it is, and I urge anyone who hasn't read it to do so, because it really gets you thinking.

I've learned that I really don't think I should rate a book until time has passed. Or perhaps I should, and compare my initial thoughts to my later opinions. I think a great book is a memorable story - whether I enjoyed it or not.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's an interesting thought Glynis. I think I'm with you on that. I've got this on my tbr and hoping to get to it in the next couple of months.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

heathera wrote:
That's an interesting thought Glynis. I think I'm with you on that. I've got this on my tbr and hoping to get to it in the next couple of months.


I can't wait to hear your thoughts about it Heather.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is one of the books that I tracked down in hardback to keep, after reading a paperback copy.  The story has stayed with me for a long time, but I didnt get on with any of his other books at all.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I finished this one last night. It was definitely a very interesting book. I haven't read anything from this author before, and so didn't have any expectations at all. I also had no idea of what it was about!

I gave it  4 stars, and was considering saying that I "enjoyed " it but didn't find it a "great" read. However, I've been thinking about it and I agree that it's going to be one of those books that stays with me. I'll hear something on the news, or come across an article in 6 months time and it'll remind me of this book, and probably make me reflect over it again.

Spoiler:


I switched from enjoying the 1st person writing style, to finding it quite irritating at times. Some times when we'd get to a "before I carry on with this thread, let me tell you about something that happened 2 weeks ago...." section I was thinking "here we go again". It made me wish he'd written it in chronological order!!

The use of language was great. The idea of "donations" even though they were complusory. The word "complete" was so final, it didn't need the word "die" to go with it. It was such a clinical way for the donors to think about the end.

It was clear to me that Kathy, Tommy, Ruth and all the others were more than just robots. They had feelings and emotions throughout the book. However when it came to sex it always seemed so functional. Especially so for Kathy (and later when Ruth admitted to sleeping with other boys at the Cottage behind Tommy's back). Kathy had such a lonely life. She didn't appear to expect much else, but I felt desperately sorry for her. What sort of society would we be if we cloned people for a purpose and then gave them half a life, but not everything that we take for granted. It was almost a "look but don't touch" attitude for the students once they left the sheltered life of Hailsham.

This did raise disturbing issues about cloning; i.e the rights of people who have been created for a specific purpose. However throughout the novel this wasn't at the forefront of my mind, I just enjoyed the story. I wanted to know if Kathy and Tommy were able to get a deferral or not, and what sort of note it would end on.



As I'm writing this I'm realising more and more the weight of this book. Honestly, most of my spoilered thoughts have only just entered my head. Whilst I was reading it I just got into the plot. Definitely very thought-provoking.



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