On a score of 1-5 stars (5 being the best), how do you rate Notes on a Scandal?
* Couldn't stand it!
0%
[ 0 ]
**
5%
[ 1 ]
***
33%
[ 6 ]
****
38%
[ 7 ]
***** Loved it!
16%
[ 3 ]
Gave up on it (explain why below)
5%
[ 1 ]
Didn't read this one
0%
[ 0 ]
Total Votes : 18
Author
Message
Tigerlily Administrator
Joined: 22 Jul 2006 Posts: 7637 Birthday: 7th July
Location: Shropshire
Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 9:06 pm Post subject:
Quote:
I loved the fact that all of the characters were so disagreeable and unlikeable
Yes, the characters aren't likeable and no one is redeemed in the book. There is none of the usual character transformation you tend to see in novels either. That's probably some people have been left feeling dissatisfied by the book.
_________________ Reading: Miss Smilla's Feeling for Snow by Peter Hoeg
Reading Challenge 2009: 8
2008: 4
2007: 10
I finished reading this last night, and really enjoyed it. I also couldn't stop picturing Judi Dench and Cate Blanchett as Barbara and Sheba - I definitely want to see the film now.
Spoiler:
I agree that the book is more about Barbara than about SHeba's affair with Connolly. I felt sorry for Barbara, but also quite 'creeped out' by her. I wondered at one point how far she would go in the grip of obsession (I had an idea that she might end up killing or trying to kill Sheba if Sheba started to detach herself from Barbara).
The style of the writing was quite claustrophobic and creepy, but that's not to say that I didn't enjoy it.
There were several remarks made by Barbara that highlighted her obsession with Sheba and how empty her life would be without their friendship. For example, Barbara gets angry when she feels that Sheba has neglected to telephone her, or when she is first told about the affair - because it makes her realise that she might not be such a high priority in Sheba's life as Sheba is in hers. Barbara is so obviously desperately lonely that friendships and social events become magnified in her mind and end up taking over her whole thoughts and feelings.
Sheba struck me as being a very weak character, constantly seeking validation from people. She was controlled by her mother, then by Richard (to an extent), then by Barbara and even by Connolly. She seemed to be crazy about Connolly, but I think it was less about who he was, than what the relationship gave her. At home, she had a difficult daughter and a son who required most of her time. When she was with Steven, she perhaps felt that she could shed all of her responsibilities and be her true self again(?) At the end of the book she appears to have totally surrendered herself to Barbara.
Richard was an interesting character. His reaction and anger to the affair was entirely understandable, but I found him to be a not particularly likeable character. Although anybody in his position would be outraged at Sheba and Connolly's relationship, he himself had married a student of his, and someone who was much younger than himself, and (I think) cheated on his first wife with that student (Sheba). Obviously that situation is different because Connolly is a minor - and I am not downplaying ths seriousness of Sheba's actions - and Sheba was an adult when her relationship with Richard began. However, he didn't seem to see any correlation between what he had done and what Sheba had done.
Joined: 22 Jul 2006 Posts: 7637 Birthday: 7th July
Location: Shropshire
Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2007 3:54 pm Post subject:
Spoiler:
Quote:
Richard was an interesting character. His reaction and anger to the affair was entirely understandable, but I found him to be a not particularly likeable character. Although anybody in his position would be outraged at Sheba and Connolly's relationship, he himself had married a student of his, and someone who was much younger than himself, and (I think) cheated on his first wife with that student (Sheba). Obviously that situation is different because Connolly is a minor - and I am not downplaying ths seriousness of Sheba's actions - and Sheba was an adult when her relationship with Richard began. However, he didn't seem to see any correlation between what he had done and what Sheba had done.
Yes, I thought this too. And isn't the woman at the end of the book another of Richard's students whom it seems he is dating? The circumstances are similar. And whilst Connolly is 15, he turns 16 when they're still seeing one another. I do think he knew what he was doing even though he was a minor in the eyes of the law. I agree with Barbara in that their affair hadn't done him any harm. More harm to Sheba if anything. And something Connolly can brag about throughout his life.
_________________ Reading: Miss Smilla's Feeling for Snow by Peter Hoeg
Reading Challenge 2009: 8
2008: 4
2007: 10
Did anyone else have Judi Dench narrating in their head the whole way through reading it?
Absolutely.... it was as if the book was written for her.
Others have said that they didn't warm to the characters, but I think that's part of the point of the book.
Spoiler:
I could understand the juxtaposition of a strong female in Barbara and carefree one in Sheba, but does this sort of relationship happen in the real world? Interested in others' comments.
Also agree that it was never explicitly stated that Barbara was a lesbian, but I started to wonder about the speed (and bitterness on Barbara's part) at which her previous friend had left. And as Barbara relates the tale, you couldn't really expect a balanced view.
Well done for picking up on the fact that we learn more about Barbara than anyone else. I wasn't conscious of that when I read the book, but it's very true.
I gave it 4 stars. I wanted to keep reading and find out what would happen. I do think that Barbara told Bangs because, deep down, she resented anyone else having a relationship with Sheba, although she did not think about the ramifications of her actions, or did she? I certianly didn't see Barbara losing her job - nice twist.
I do think that such relationships as that between Barbara and Sheba are quite commonplace probably between men as well where you have the domineering, decision making one and the more laidback, you organise my life for me, type. I don't think people like Barbara would seek out someone equally controlling as they need that power over someone else to justify their existence and there are plenty of people like Sheba who go with the flow.
_________________ Currently reading - The Italian Boy - Murder and Grave Robbery in 1830s London - Sarah Wise
have to admit to being the one in the poll who gave up on it....
just didn`t like the narator charachter at all.... she reminded me too much of my 1st boss at work.....
Still it`s listed in the RISI mobile library so its not a waste ...
Joined: 29 Jul 2006 Posts: 4137 Birthday: 12th December
Location: Cumbria
Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:19 pm Post subject:
Notes on a Sandal
I quite enjoyed this book.
Spoiler:
I agree that this book is more about Barbara than Sheba, but contrary to most other people I do feel rather sorry for her. She is a very lonely person but can’t see that it is due to her own behavior. She has very high standards – in teaching, cleaning and morals - and is utterly sure that her way of doing things is the right way and her views are the right ones, which makes it very difficult for most people to get on with her once they realize this. Barbara seemed to have had an unsatisfactory working class upbringing (in her view) which she resented and by being Sheba’s friend she hoped to be seen as ‘middleclass’ herself.
I don’t think she is an Lesbian, there was no hint of anything sexual in her relationship with Sheba. In fact I don’t think she would be in favour of any kind of sexual activity – too messy. Some middle aged are unmarried because they have never found the right man or don’t want the ‘bother of the sex bit’ not becasue they are Lesbain. I did wonder if she wasn’t so much looking for a friend as a substitute daughter. But in any friendships she had had she acted like a Cuckoo in a nest, ousting any other fledgling friendships until she was the only one left.
Sheba seems to be at a point in her life when she has asked herself – is this all there is? She had married young to a much older man who she may not have quite trusted. After all he was working with young women all the time and he had fallen for one of his students before (herself). After she was charged he was soon able to get one of his female students to ‘help’ around the house and with Ben. She had a difficult relationship with her young, beautiful but rebellious daughter. Every time she looked at her she saw her self getting older. She had always been a disappointment to her own parents and she had a young disabled son who was delightful but would be depended on her one way or another all his life. She took up teaching in the hope she would get some satisfaction from teaching bright young people you where just dying to learn about pottery. Of course she was soon disillusioned and in the end give up trying to teach them anything and let them do as the liked. The headmaster was a bit pathetic and she didn’t really fit in with the most of the teaching staff and took a while to make any friends.
So when Connolly showed interest in her and art – well the rest was almost inevitable given the fact that Sheba was a weak person and easily swayed. How the affair really started and what went on we don’t really know as we only have Barbara’s version and Sheba did lie to her on occasion. Although the photos did prove it happened Still I can't see the atttaction myself. I haven't had a crush on a schoolboy since I was 15.
I don’t think Barbara meant to tell on Sheba, I think she was hurt because she felt used by Bangs after all it was Sheba he wanted and hope to get to her through Barbara. But as a result of telling him she did end up getting a lot out of it. She took early retirement, no doubt on a reasonable state pension and even though her life had been teaching she now had Sheba full time, a constant companion in her life, someone who relied on her for everything and give her life a meaning. I doubt Sheba would ever be able to leave and would withdraw more and more into herself.
As to the ending, I had a look on the internet for articles on teacher/pupil relationships and found in 2 fairly recent cases, two female teaches who had inappropriate relations with a male student both received suspended sentences and where placed on the sex offenders register which of course means they wouldn’t ever be able to teach young people again. So in reality I doubt Sheba would have gone to prison despite Connolly’s mother screaming her precious sons innocence. (Mothers can be very blind to the life their children really lead). Connolly himself had also moved on, getting over the stage when older women seem desirable. He seem to relalise this when Sheba was in France for a month and girls his own age became more attractive but he didn’t seem to have the courage to end the affair with Sheba. I have know doubt that he basked in the admiration of his friends when the affair became public and it would have done is street cred no end of good. Sheba’s husband would divorce her and marry another student, but it did't last long, too big an age gap. Her daughter would end up in rehab after getting into drugs to escape the pain of her mothers behaviour. So Barabra and Connolly who both latched on to Sheba and caused her downfall where the only winners in this story.
Sorry, that was rather long and rambling.
Most of you could see Judy Dench in the voice of the narrator but I couldn't get Prunella Scales out of my mind. Not sure why. I don’t mean as Sybil Faulty but as she has been in recent roles. Glad Bill Nighy is playing the husband. This means I will have to see the film as I like him as an actor.
Really enjoyed your points of view Blueflower. I sidn't realise Bill NIghy was the hubby...I can really imagine that now! I did laugh when I first read about Prunella Scales, but then again my first thought was Sybil! _________________ Swap List: http://tinyurl.com/33pg6r
Currently Reading "Switchcraft" by Lowri Turner
Joined: 29 Jul 2006 Posts: 4137 Birthday: 12th December
Location: Cumbria
Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 3:32 pm Post subject:
Looking a the photos of Judi Dench in film, I think she looks far to old to be Barbara. In the book she is only a few years from retiring but that means she is still in her 50's but in the stills from the film she looks nearer 70. I know she is a brilliant actress but not sure she was right for this part.
This is the picture of Prunella Scales that I was thinking off.
Looking a the photos of Judi Dench in film, I think she looks far to old to be Barbara. In the book she is only a few years from retiring but that means she is still in her 50's but in the stills from the film she looks nearer 70. I know she is a brilliant actress but not sure she was right for this part.
This is the picture of Prunella Scales that I was thinking off.
I agree, I do think Prunella may have been a good choice. _________________ Swap List: http://tinyurl.com/33pg6r
Currently Reading "Switchcraft" by Lowri Turner
Joined: 22 Jul 2006 Posts: 7637 Birthday: 7th July
Location: Shropshire
Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:16 pm Post subject:
Spoiler:
I remember being struck by how obssessed with class Barbara seemed in the novel. I don't know if she wanted others to think of her as middle class though. She kept on that Sheba was upper class didn't she? Sheba seemed to have not given class and class differences much thought. It made me smile when Barbara tells us about Sheba seeing a three piece suite for the first time at Connolly's house.
_________________ Reading: Miss Smilla's Feeling for Snow by Peter Hoeg
Reading Challenge 2009: 8
2008: 4
2007: 10
Joined: 29 Jul 2006 Posts: 4137 Birthday: 12th December
Location: Cumbria
Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:38 am Post subject:
Spoiler:
you are right SB, Barbara did think of Sheba as been upper class, I got that wrong. I liked the bit about the 3 piece suit, no self respecting upper class person would have on in the house. Barbara was obsessed by class and I felt that she somewhat resented her more working class background. I believe that you 'class status' is judged on your fathers occupation so what ever you do in life would change your 'class'. You would think that nowadays class was less important than in the Edwardian and Victorian times but it is still important in some circles. But I would be getting rid of my suite (two pieces, large sofa and chair).
What was Connolly's motive for starting the affair? Did he really fancy Sheba? was it a bet?
I didn't think I would like this book but I did, but I think that I could identify some of the characters.
My Mum is a bit like Barbara. She thinks that her views are the right ones and won't be told different and she has a quite a narrow out look on life. My ex husband was an older man who liked younger women. When I got into my 40's he trading me in for someone 20 years younger than himself ( she is only a couple of years older than his daughter). But I have never fancied a school boy and can't for the life of me see the attractraction.(although Mr BF is 9 years younger than me, so maybe I'm not that much different)
I may watch the film when it comes out on DVD but looking at the stills I'm not sure of some of the casting.
Joined: 22 Jul 2006 Posts: 7637 Birthday: 7th July
Location: Shropshire
Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:48 am Post subject:
Spoiler:
I think that nowadays class boundaries are blurred. I watched a programme about it recently and it was really interesting. Isn't someone's class defined by what job they do as opposed to what their father did/does? Maybe in the Victorian era. It's not something that should be important, imo.
_________________ Reading: Miss Smilla's Feeling for Snow by Peter Hoeg
Reading Challenge 2009: 8
2008: 4
2007: 10
Joined: 22 Jul 2006 Posts: 7637 Birthday: 7th July
Location: Shropshire
Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:38 am Post subject:
Sorry, had to cut my last post short. I know I'm digressing a bit, but this is interesting - a Times debate on whether class matters. 'Do your roots dictate class or do you forge your own status?'
We have all met people with university degrees and classic professional jobs who bang on about how working-class they are. These people desperately crave what they perceive to be street cred. I recognise their instinct to try to make their heritage seem a little less comfortable. I was guilty of it myself. But at least I stopped pretending that I was from solid working-class stock at the age of 16, when it was pointed out to me that my family’s working-class credentials disappeared when my great grandmother failed to follow her other siblings into the mill and became a teacher.
That pretty much answers my question. It's fascinating (and silly), the nation's obsession with class. _________________ Reading: Miss Smilla's Feeling for Snow by Peter Hoeg
Reading Challenge 2009: 8
2008: 4
2007: 10
Joined: 29 Jul 2006 Posts: 4137 Birthday: 12th December
Location: Cumbria
Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:38 am Post subject:
Spoiler:
I agree it shouldn't be important and maybe blurred, but I know it exists and is important to some people and the fact that Barbara mentioned it a few times would suggest it was important to her. Its not a subject I have found in modern novels before. It tends to be more of a pre ocupation of the classics which is why I think it stuck in my mind.
Joined: 29 Jul 2006 Posts: 4137 Birthday: 12th December
Location: Cumbria
Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 11:02 am Post subject:
I have just had a look at the site but haven't time to look at it all. I have to put cleaner on the patio.
However I did pick out this quote that I agree with:-
"Of course, class is all in the head. We have it in our grasp, with a mix of graft, talent and luck, to topple the tyranny of the circumstances of our birth. It’s just that I reckon nobody told this to the posh people above me. The ones with the money and influence are the ones who dole out the jobs."
I think this is very true, the top jobs are still very much given to those from the right families or university or public school etc.
Joined: 22 Jul 2006 Posts: 7637 Birthday: 7th July
Location: Shropshire
Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:30 pm Post subject:
Yes, that quote stuck out for me too, (and like you we're cleaning the patio too)
Everyone's so different, it's a shame to label people into class categories. I understand you saying it's important to Barbara in the book and also to a lot of people today.
PS I noticed from your photo on RiSi that you have a gorgeous garden! I meant to mention it to you before but forgot. _________________ Reading: Miss Smilla's Feeling for Snow by Peter Hoeg
Reading Challenge 2009: 8
2008: 4
2007: 10
Joined: 29 Jul 2006 Posts: 4137 Birthday: 12th December
Location: Cumbria
Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 6:35 pm Post subject:
Thanks for the complaint about the garden, Paul spends quite a lot of time trying to get them right. There is major work planned for the front one this summer, if we find the energy.
Back to the book - when I saw both March's choices I wasn't overjoyed. I had looked at Notes on a Scandal before but hadn't fancied it and was sure I wouldn't like To Kill a Mockingbird because it was narrated by children and I don't usually like the coming of age type of book. But I have enjoyed both of them and glad I've read them. This is what I like about this forum it 'makes' me read books I would have ignored before and I would have missed some real treats.
Joined: 22 Jul 2006 Posts: 955 Birthday: 12th December
Location: Paisley, Scotland
Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 8:09 pm Post subject:
I know exactly what you mean Blueflower. I am not sure about this month's choices and I was going to give them a miss, cos I've looked at them a few times and neither have really appealled. But then I thought "that is the point of being in the group - you try books you wouldn't normally try" If you don't like the book you don't have to finish it! I am sure I will be pleasantly surprised by at least one of them (ever the optimist ). That is not the only reason I am a member of this group, but it is one of them! _________________ Currently reading: The Human Stain by Philip Roth
'Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.'
Joined: 05 Jul 2007 Posts: 919 Birthday: 23rd December
Location: Dorset, UK
Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:08 pm Post subject:
Have just finished this book and I was surprised at how much I enjoyed it. I usually read crime/thriller novels but having read very praising reviews of the film, I thought I'd read the book first before I watched it.
Spoiler:
I would agree with the rest of you that the book is far more about Barbara's character, than it is of Sheba's. I did feel a little sympathy towards Barbara as she was clearly a very lonely soul, but her unhealthy obsession with getting close to Sheba was very creepy to say the least.
The pure reason for Barbara telling Bangs that there was something going on between Sheba and Connolly, was in my mind so that Sheba would spiral even more out of control and she would be solely dependant on Barbara.
I don't believe that Connolly's relationship with Sheba was for a bet as the other children would have soon blabbed about it. He had a crush on her and the thrill of being with an older/married/teacher excited him. I don't believe for one second that the relationship harmed him in any way, it of course should never have happened.
What we'll never know is whether or not Barbara's account of the events are truly accurate, but that Barbara ending up getting what she most wanted in the world, a companion.
Lisa x
_________________ Currently Reading - Want to Play? By P.J Tracy (again)
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